Sunday, March 14, 2010

An inexplicable law

Making news internationally is another case of a British couple given a jail sentence followed by deportation for public indecency.

The UK coverage I've seen so far has been restrained, simply reporting the case and describing the morality laws as draconian.

The UK tabloid The Sun says the offence was "at the swish Jumeirah Beach Residence".

Well, if you think a burger joint like Bob's Easy Diner ('There ain't no finer diner') is swish I guess that's right.

Anyway, they'd been out for a few drinks and were in Bob's Easy Diner. Also there at 2am were an Emirati mother and her children. I wonder how old the children were, to be out at that time...

The mother complained to the police that her children, and then she, saw the couple kissing on the lips and touching each other.

Welcome to Al Slammer.

The couple claim they only kissed on the cheek, they're out on bail and are due in the Appeals Court next week.

That's background, I'm actually posting about the other half of the story, which is an inexplicable law.

The second offence, for which the court fined them Dh1,000 each, was for consuming alcohol.

I've posted about this law on previous occasions.

Not, you note, 'drunk & disorderly' but 'consuming alcohol'.

It's perfectly legal for Dubai Duty Free, liquor stores, hotel bars, clubs & restaurants to sell alcohol. And for Emirates Airline to serve it free of charge.

Both private and government organisations are involved in trading in alcohol.

But drinking it is illegal.

Could someone with a better legal brain than mine explain it to me.



Gulf News has the story here.
The Sun is here.

37 comments:

LDU said...

The law is an ass

Dave said...

You raise some very good questions regarding the drinking of alcohol, and as he was a resident of the UAE I can only presume he did not have an alcohol licence, which as we know is a BS charge.

But I understand she was a visitor from the UK and therefore is not eligible (nor required) to have a licence.

This is bizarre and I hope those big legal minds are reading your blog and can explain.

As for the charge of kissing in public..... no comment necessary about this utter stupdity....

Mita said...

Sometimes when I see these tourists doing something so innocent as the odd kiss, I am tempted to remind them that they are in a Muslim country but when no one else has commented- I feel a bit petty pointing this out.

Media Junkie said...

...i'm glad i'm leaving.

samuraisam said...

Same bullshit as the "that guy over there gave me the middle finger!" or who could forget the "That man and woman were having sex on a beach at 2 AM! I should know, I have night vision goggles!" yet again.

One day this concept is going to explode in a very bad way and embarrass a whole lot of people. I'm surprised it hasn't already. Someone with a lot of balls could walk into the police station tomorrow and file complaints against 50000 people on SZR for kissing in their cars and giving them the middle fingers and have every single one of them thrown in jail.

E said...

must you go on?

Susan said...

I think the sad thing is that "displays of affection" are considered offensive, banned and routinely cut out of movies and TV, and yet displays of violence and blood are perfectly acceptable. Something is deeply wrong with this picture. Yes I know the bleeding hearts are going to come up with the "this is our culture" excuse but you know what, sometimes "culture" has to evolve.

My other concern would be if the mother is so concerned for the welfare of her children why did she have them up at 2am?

Alan said...

I am no expert but one possible explanation is that there is no crime of "drunk & disorderly" on the statute so they charge them with the nearest thing which is consuming alcohol.

Anonymous said...

I am thinking some of it, albeit wrongly, has to do with the fact that he may be ethinically Arab, therefore even as a British citizen where religion does not have to be on the passport he is considered a muslim and thus he was charged with drinking alcohol (and i guess to be impartial they charged the poor girl as well - possibly because they may have had drinks at a venue that was not a hotel).

In anycase the drinking laws in the country need to be revised. They don't have a Pork License so why do they still need a liquor license?

ultra[blue] said...

If you dont like it we have large airports. LEAVE.

Anonymous said...

The mother should be counter-charged with child abuse for having her kids in a restaurant at 2am. And anyway what is it with these people? Get people thrown in jail for a kiss? Are we living in the dark ages here? Get a life, jeez.

And as for the comment that if we don't like it leave. One day we all might. Then the UAE will be well and truly buggered.

I would pass the same comment to the Arab nations who protested last year that Switzerland wouldn't allow minarets to be built on a mosque.

If you don't like it build as many mosques as you like in your own country.

We are not allowed to build spires on our churches here, do we complain? No?

Oh and while you're at it UAE before you ask us to respect your laws respect ours - get your embassy to pay the millions it owes in traffic, congestion charge and parking fines in London.

Rant over.

Anonymous said...

Saying comments like 'if you don't like it leave' is all very well and good. However, the problem once again lies with begging and asking foreigners to come build and invest into the Emirate. Where was the 'if you don't like it....' attitude then? The laws as they stand are draconian for people who disagree with the incident but are adequate for people who agree with the actions of the authorities.

If the country wants to portray an Islamic identity, then the selling of alcohol, operating of nightclubs and free mixing of opposite sexes must be stopped. Period. There is no halfway house here. Unfortunately Dubai is once again in the International headlines and once again it has become the laughing stock of the world.

Saying to someone that you can drink alcohol but you will be penalised if you do and we will sell it to you where you will also be penalised if you consume it and once you consume it you will be penalised if you try to go home because it is in your blood system and you are outside a licensed establishment sums up Dubai. Idiotic, Draconian and Hypocritical!

And yes, the Emirati woman who was with her young children at 2am in a restaurant should be charged for child abuse, immoral conduct, indecent behaviour and soliciting. What was she doing outside her home at this time of night? Was she using her children as decoys and meeting up with someone else for an extra marital affair? Where was her husband? Was she jealous because she was not the centre of attraction or being shown the affection by her lover? All sorts of allegations can be thrown at her. Where are Social Services when you need them?

Doug said...

Frankly I don't think you can complain about a couple kissing and then raise questions about the conduct of a woman being out at 2am - look, if we can accept that a man and woman can be in a public place and exchange a kiss without breaking some Islamic sexual taboo, then we have to accept that a woman out at 2am isn't necessarily up to no good.

The real issue here is that the legal system is coming across as less a tool for maintaining law and order and more a device for Emiratis to seek some redress against foreigners just because they're in a bad mood or find it amusing.

Reading between the lines here, it's fairly obvious that one of two things was happening. One is that a couple were tonguing, in a place which is usually fairly quiet by 2am. They were then spotted by a genuinely insulted Emirati woman who clearly hasn't been let out of the house very often. Not great but not the end of the world.

The other is that some grumpy Emirati housewife was feeling antagonistic or prejudiced (PMT? Beaten by her husband? Who knows) and decided to attack an easy target by whining to the police about the terrible immoral Westerner. She evidently wasn't personally insulted by the couple as that would have been another allegation thrown at them. Instead now we have some vague nonsense about 'my son saw it' or 'I saw it' with no clarity.

As for the end of the discussion - look, if Dubai can send home two fitshaced expats who boning on the beach without putting them in jail, I don't really see why they can't just do the same with these two.

What I don't like about the case is that it's a 'he said, she said' sort of case. There is no actual proof of any immoral conduct other than one Emirati's testimony. That shouldn't be enough to secure a conviction. If I claimed an Emirati stole something from me, the case wouldn't even get to court because I'm a foreigner.

This is why every week there's allegations against Emirati coppers from raped Filipina maids and not a damn thing is done about it. Many Emiratis are outright hypocrites, as a quick trip to the Jebel Ali Club to see men in dishdashas drinking cider and playing poker will tell you.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at March 15, 2010 5:10 PM,

You raise some good points and especially that part about that Emirati chick - oops woman - at a restaurant at 2 AM.

Well, you never know, maybe she had a groupie session lined up and when her groupies didn't show up, she decided to use her tragedy as a blessing in disguise.

Barrio Tragedy,

Grow a pair! porks was the word verification, serves you right!

Bush Mechanic said...

...and the Emirati Ladys' phone was disconnected. Was it ever connected? Does she exist? I've got some doubts. Anyway, can the last expat to leave please turn out the lights.

ultra[blue] said...

And as for the comment that if we don't like it leave. One day we all might. Then the UAE will be well and truly buggered.

Wont happen. Prostitutes like your lot go after money, and we have it. For every British person who leaves another will come, and if not Brits then Brazilians, or Japanese... Money talks.

I would pass the same comment to the Arab nations who protested last year that Switzerland wouldn't allow minarets to be built on a mosque.

If you don't like it build as many mosques as you like in your own country.

Apples and Oranges. Here are are telling FOREIGNERS to obey OUR culture.

In those countries, those are CITIZENS, Switzerland NATIONALS who have (supposedly) the same citizen rights as another NATIONAL.

When you are a UAE CITIZEN and are not given your CITIZEN RIGHTS here, then make that comparison.

No one forced any european country to naturalize those people. Infact, you shouldn't have. If you have an issue with who your western countries allow to be full and equal CITIZENS, go talk to your govt.

It would be helpful to learn your LEGAL STATUS in the UAE.

You are a RESIDENT on a WORK VISA or a SPONSORSHIP. You are not a CITIZEN and thus have NO SAY in matters of LAWS.

Again, when you are a UAE CITIZEN, and the govt treats you differently for being a different ethnicity, please come back and talk and I will walk with you up to the doors of Sh. Mohamed myself.

LEARN YOUR PLACE. YOUR LEGAL PLACE. If you cant stand not being a citizen of the place you live, then go back home and make a lesser salary.

You cant have both.

ultra[blue] said...

What I don't like about the case is that it's a 'he said, she said' sort of case. There is no actual proof of any immoral conduct other than one Emirati's testimony. That shouldn't be enough to secure a conviction. If I claimed an Emirati stole something from me, the case wouldn't even get to court because I'm a foreigner.

Exactly. KNOW YOUR LEGAL STATUS.

A correction though, this isnt he said she said. You have witnesses, 3 I think, the woman and her kids?

The defense CLAIMED to have witnesses. They will produce them. If they are credible, the case will be thrown out.

Simple. What you have is a person (or people) saying we say this happen, and the defense saying we have people who saw it and say it ddnt.

You'll know in due course what was seen by who.

I personally think tis is going to be thrown out on the account of 6 or 7 people seeing 6 or 7 things.

I like how you westerners LOVE to jump to conclusions and judge the SECOND something like this is in he papers even though NO judgement has been made save the alcohol charge that WAS TESTED FOR.

ultra[blue] said...

If the country wants to portray an Islamic identity, then the selling of alcohol, operating of nightclubs and free mixing of opposite sexes must be stopped. Period. There is no halfway house here.

Actually there is. The laws of the UAE are the right of the rulers, ministers, and wishes of the people of (CITIZENS)

The UAE constitution states that the UAE will be GUIDED by Islam, not will be bound by it.

Personally I am in favor of more Saudi style rule here. But I dont think that is what the majority wish for.

However, the problem once again lies with begging and asking foreigners to come build and invest into the Emirate.

No begging happened. greedy western countries came after the oil, and greedy western foreigners now come because they cant find jobs, or cant find as good a job, as here.

Its a very simple transaction. We pay you, you work. When we stop paying, you leave. While you are here, you do as we say or you are deported.

For those who CHOOSE to invest, how was that a promise to bend over backwards and to amend our laws to fit you? WHAT COUNTRY ON EARTH WOULD DO THAT? Would yours for me? No.

Once again, you are confusing a pure transaction for something more. It is that simple.

Saying to someone that you can drink alcohol but you will be penalised if you do and we will sell it to you where you will also be penalised if you consume it and once you consume it you will be penalised if you try to go home because it is in your blood system and you are outside a licensed establishment sums up Dubai. Idiotic, Draconian and Hypocritical!

Your opinion, your opinion, and your opinion. Which once again, MIGHT hold water if you were a citizen of the UAE. As you are not all it seems like is a baby crying. BElieve it or not Mr. White man, not everything you say is a fact. And you, being a nobody here, means that your options will not only never be a fact... it's about as useful as the opinions of a dead koala.

I actually love how the law is written as it TECHNICALLY means that cops could stand outside of every hotel and just start picking up foreigners left and right. A 1000 dirhams each? Hell yes, the govt would make more money than speeding tickets! Of course, the fact that we DONT do that and ALLOW you to have your filth isnt good enough. You're given an inch and you want a mile. Tough.

But if it's so bad, why are you still here? Is it the air fare? I will pay for your ticket to leave if thats it. Not kidding.

You're here because you are a prostitute. Money hungry, BUT also cant stand being told what to do.

Boo hoo.

ultra[blue] said...

I can only presume he did not have an alcohol licence, which as we know is a BS charge.

If it's a BS charge why is he now convicted of it? Think before you speak.

Also, if you were trying to be smart, lets look into that a bit more. Please explain why it's a BS charge? Because YOU dont agree with it?

So if I dont agree with a 120 km/h speed limit and get a ticket it's now a BS charge?

It's not the govt's fault that you do not KNOW YOUR LEGAL STATUS OR THE LAWS OF THE ACTIONS YOU CHOOSE TO PARTAKE IN.

Walk into the ministry of awqaf, or probably the dubai courts (or any police station) and ask for a copy, they will hand it to you, in... like 8 languages.

HAVE ANY OF YOU DONE THIS?

Doubtful.

There is a saying in Arabic, Al qanoon la yahmi al mughafileel. The law doesnt protect those who are ignorant.

The law is there, regardless of you liking it, or knowing about it. It is YOUR job as a RESIDENT to know the laws of the place you live. You want that fat salary and want NO ramifications. Things dont work like that.

Mita said...
Sometimes when I see these tourists doing something so innocent as the odd kiss, I am tempted to remind them that they are in a Muslim country but when no one else has commented- I feel a bit petty pointing this out.

You really should. It might help someone in the future. I'm a believer that most of these situations happen because of a general ignorance of the rules and laws. Which as I said, will not help when you are charged, even if the likelihood of being charged is low.

As a resident who KNOWS these things, I'd think you would prefer to tell people who might not know than have them picked up a while later for something hey didnt mean to do.

I have myself. Im sure many think Im making shit up, or that it just bothers me. If it's a girl or woman I have my fiance or sister or whoever go up to them. It isnt my job, I know the laws of where I live, and have lived. But still, At very least I'd like someone who truly didnt mean any harm to be aware that TECHNICALLY, they can be fined for this or that.

I like that people come to VISIT. I'd like people to know as much about the UAE as I do about the US, or Japan, or Germany (Having lived in those places) but never once did I break a rule there (And trust me, as an F1 VISA holder in the US... MANY MANY laws to be aware of)

And the UAE allows alot, and tolerates alot, but there are things we dont, and knowing those things is just as important as seeing Burj Dubai or knowing what Harees is.

Media Junkie said...

...and this is where the debate goes to hell.

Firefox said...

Ultrablue aka blessing in tragedy,

I'll give you a piece of advice. If you want to be taken seriously, start writing constructively without even a hint of insult and then maybe people may take you seriously, may!

You can ramble all that you can about awqaf and your bullshit religious, conveniently-leaning laws. You can even stick that in your self where the sun doesn't shine. Your Government wants expats and they'll do anything to keep this country going. After all, it's all about money and the fact that it makes the world go round.

You work, right? You get paid, yes? Well, guess what Barrio, that makes you a prostitute like everyone else. The only difference between us and you is that we know it while you claim your hymen is intact. Look down for a change, you'd be surprised with your discovery.

Anonymous said...

Hey Ultra[Blue] hope you get to read this:

You claim to be an Emirati Citizen who knows the law, yadda yadda, yet on your own blog you and your cronnies boast about how you pay 20000 in fines per month on your car, and give bribes to police officials... You can't even obey your own laws and yet you lecture other people on how they should obey your laws!!

And, yes, when you come to my country on a 'Student' visa you better get in line and behave! Oh, and thank you for the tuition fees... they help offset the cost of tuition of my kids, who can then go on to get fat salaries in your country.

Oh, Burj and Harees. Well, with all your money you couldn't even get the right elevator installed; and Harees: its as insipid as your intellect.

Doug said...

As for knowing my legal status...I'm not calling for a change in the law. If the Emirati population decides that a peck on the cheek is immoral, that's fine. We should all toe that line.

But that law also applies to Emiratis in public. Public decency laws, by their very nature, must be applied equally.

The other issue is how these laws are enforced. If something is dependent on the testimony of one adult and two minors (who have questionable value in a court of law) then I would argue this is an inadequate way of enforcing the law. Granted, I'm looking at this through Western eyes and the assumption of innocence until proven guilt, so perhaps my view isn't valid here. But do you not concede that if conviction is dependent on sole testimony, that does open the system to abuse by both Emiratis and foreigners?

Seabee said...

The other disturbing factor is that the reports say the complainant was not in court which means she couldn't be questioned. The court said "...her statement was enough"

Someone simply signs a statement saying another person broke the law. There is no corroborating evidence, no witnesses for either side, the court accepts the accusation without question, the defendant is found guilty and jailed.

I remember a similar miscarriage of justice over thirty years ago but I thought the country had moved on since then.

Anonymous said...

QUOTE: "I like how you westerners LOVE to jump to conclusions and judge the SECOND something like this is in he papers even though NO judgement has been made save the alcohol charge that WAS TESTED FOR."

A judgment has been made - they were sentenced to a month in prison and have been bailed pending the result of the appeal. Before you start letcuring and insulting people about not knowing their facts, you should check yours.

Anonymous said...

Tell us, ultra[blue]/ABIT, who is the bigger prostitute/slave/sucker of these two examples?

1. A person who chooses to temporarily relocate to earn some money in a foreign country that has some laws and practices with which they disagree (maybe because they are arbitrary, contradictory, primitive - whatever), either for a better salary than that available elsewhere (not the case for me or many others btw) or to experience a different part of the world.
OR
2. A person who is a citizen of that same country, who cravenly forgoes FOR A LIFETIME any say in how the country is run in return for the crumbs thrown to him from the welfare table by the self-serving ruling cliques.

"CITIZEN RIGHTS" - you're having a laugh. You have NONE!!! At least we can leave...

Muahahaha, as you might (unimaginatively) put it yourself.

This case is another example of how the locals are pacified by an occasional token gesture against the foreigners that they don't really want here (except the ones cleaning their OWN homes, raising their OWN kids, reminding them to breathe in then out etc.). Since most of the poor locals have had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in immigration - or anything else for that matter - little outbursts like this (and the traffic finger) allow them to occasionally pathetically flex some of their vestigial civic muscles. And despite the potential short-term damage to their business interests, evidently the ruling families tolerate this in order to keep the peasants pacified.

Simples

Susan said...

The thing is Ultrablue/ABIT whoever you are, no one did inform the couple that they were upsetting anyone. They just went straight to the police and filed a complaint with no consideration for how they were potentially destroying someone's life, or maybe they had considered it and did it anyway. Pretty nasty behaviour by any standards.

Doug said...

They just went straight to the police and filed a complaint with no consideration for how they were potentially destroying someone's life, or maybe they had considered it and did it anyway.

Precisely, which is why I'm increasingly convinced the Emirati population sees the law not as a method of maintaining order and peace, but a way of broadly applying wasta for personal gain.

Here's a thought - if you really gave a damn about 'preserving your culture', surely you should be taking that responsibility on yourself, willingly and gladly, rather than hoping someone else will do it for you.

Put it this way - if I saw someone breaking the law, I would attempt to intervene if I felt there was no personal danger to myself. Shouldn't you all be doing your part too?

If an Emirati wandered over and told me off for doing something I'd stop it pretty bloody sharpish out of respect and fear. Why get the police involved?

ultra[blue] said...

Anonymous said...
Hey Ultra[Blue] hope you get to read this:

You claim to be an Emirati Citizen who knows the law, yadda yadda, yet on your own blog you and your cronnies boast about how you pay 20000 in fines per month on your car, and give bribes to police officials... You can't even obey your own laws and yet you lecture other people on how they should obey your laws!!

I never bribed anyone. We simply had the minister's office call them up and tell them that they had made a mistake. No money exchanged hands. Learn to read buster. Plus, my “cronnies” dont speed. They dont even park in no parking zones. So dont generalize. And most of the contributers of my side ARENT Emarati. I’m trying to build a site where many views can be shared. If you look at the newest post you will see that myself and one of the more active members got into a huge argument. It’s healthy. THAT site in particular has one agenda. To talk about things. And let me tell you, most of what the others post on there I dont agree with. But I picked them to contribute because of what I saw on their own blogs. An ability to assert an opinion without being too opinionated. I on the other hand am, lol. So take what I say at face value fellow innerweb IP number.

I'll give you a piece of advice. If you want to be taken seriously, start writing constructively without even a hint of insult and then maybe people may take you seriously, may!

I dont have to be taken seriously by beings that are beneath me. You are beneath me. YOu taking me seriously is as important as a chair taking me seriously.

And, yes, when you come to my country on a 'Student' visa you better get in line and behave! Oh, and thank you for the tuition fees... they help offset the cost of tuition of my kids, who can then go on to get fat salaries in your country.

I know, you guys cant even teach your own kids without our help. Exactly. I DO behave when I have in another's country. YOU should learn to do the same.

But that law also applies to Emiratis in public. Public decency laws, by their very nature, must be applied equally.

Agreed, and has anyone stopped you from reporting anything? No. Most foreigners though dont report anything, simply because they dont care. And I dont expect you to, but I do, because when you are long gone, I'll still be here. It matters to me.

But do you not concede that if conviction is dependent on sole testimony, that does open the system to abuse by both Emiratis and foreigners?

Of course! But as I pointed out, there hasnt been a conviction YET. The proceedings are still ongoing.

ultra[blue] said...

There is a bit of background info you might not know, in a court dealing with these issues, I.E. islamic issues, only a MUSLIM's testimony is acceptable. I am not sure how strict they are about this, but if they are, that would automatically make any non-Muslim's testimony invalid.

Another issue is our court system is MUCH different than what you are used to. you are used to all parties being in one room and questions and answers. In our system, any question must be presented to the other side in WRITING. And answers are filed in WRITING. In some cases the 2 sides, and even 2 lawyers never see eachother.

But yes, I 100% agree with you doug. ALL evidence should be examined. But few cases are open to the public, and so you and I will never know what all the evidence was, or how many witnesses each side had... Like I said, all done between the 2 side's lawyers and the court.

A judgment has been made - they were sentenced to a month in prison and have been bailed pending the result of the appeal.

They were found guilty of being under the influence of alcohol while not being in a licensed establishment. They havent been convicted of the kissing thing. YOU check our facts. They are facing 2 separate counts, or 3...

2. A person who is a citizen of that same country, who cravenly forgoes FOR A LIFETIME any say in how the country is run in return for the crumbs thrown to him from the welfare table by the self-serving ruling cliques.

I forego nothing. The civic contract made between the late Sh. Zayed and his people was simple. I will take care of you and you guys start from now to slowly build yourselves up.

And it's a deal I gladly accept even with my western education. Crumbs? I get free health case, free education for life, free land to build a home for my family on, free money to help me build that, and I get a country that only asks that I continue to build myself and family up so that one day, we can meet any challenge.

I had an American classmate tell me he'd give his right nut for 1/2 of what we get, AND would forego any say in anything because, lets face it, at least I KNOW my say doesnt count. In the west you are lied into thiking that it counts, then your leaders go and do what they want, then 8 years later you question them about what they did.

No, our way is much better.

Susan said...
The thing is Ultrablue/ABIT whoever you are, no one did inform the couple that they were upsetting anyone. They just went straight to the police and filed a complaint with no consideration for how they were potentially destroying someone's life, or maybe they had considered it and did it anyway. Pretty nasty behaviour by any standards.

I agree. I would have, and HAVE gone up to people and told them, what you're doing is technically illegal, and you know, 90% actually rectify it and thank me. I'm not a mean person. Even thoug TECHNICALLY, anyone has a right to report anything that is technically illegal.

ultra[blue] said...

So yes, you do have a point, as I said before, I find visitors, and even resident aliens a welcomed sight as it will allow them to learn about something completely alien to them. But for whatever reason this woman didnt or doesnt think the same way.

But on the other hand, these rules, although maybe not always found so offensive as to make someone call something in, are on the books, and no knowing about them isnt a defense.

This is why I have posted the WHOLE text of the rules on my blog.

Put it this way - if I saw someone breaking the law, I would attempt to intervene if I felt there was no personal danger to myself. Shouldn't you all be doing your part too?

Once again, I agree with you 100%, and I have taken alot on myself personally, with my blog, and in real life so that people can better understand and still go home saying oh! we had fun.

I find that SO many people want to learn about and visit the middle east, BUT are afraid because of what they see in Afghanistan or even Saudi Arabia.

Although I dont agree with how the KSA is run (Thats why I havent ever been there, not even for religious reasons) I also dont believe that the UAE should become Jordan or Lebanon.

The country is 40 years old and ALOT of internal powers are trying to find their place.

Some are DEATHLY angry that 85% of the country are foreigners, and blame the foreigners, and want to take it out on them.

Others are angry at the govt, including (oddly enough) some members of the FNC and although have no real power, do make these issues heard.

Some like me blame our SITUATION. not foreigners or the govt. We were a sand pot and needed to survive. Then oil came and at the time we knew nothing. Just one generation ago my family lived in tents.

And now you have the 2nd generation of educated people coming up and saying oh, how things are arent right, they arent perfect, as we might have been told, and this isnt what we want.

Others still, of the same exact generation say oh, we should have it how it is.
Would you believe I have sat in a room of 7 Emaratis, all western educated and career people, and was told by one that we should have a total separation of state and mosque?

More is happening that a foreigner can realize, unless you are one who has been here for 30 year, then sure, you will have an idea.

I agree, as I said, a simple you know, that is illegal and you could get in trouble for it would have done. But this lady decided to call it in, and that is her right.

ultra[blue] said...

This case is another example of how the locals are pacified by an occasional token gesture against the foreigners that they don't really want here (except the ones cleaning their OWN homes, raising their OWN kids, reminding them to breathe in then out etc.). Since most of the poor locals have had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in immigration - or anything else for that matter - little outbursts like this (and the traffic finger) allow them to occasionally pathetically flex some of their vestigial civic muscles. And despite the potential short-term damage to their business interests, evidently the ruling families tolerate this in order to keep the peasants pacified.

How badly has your own country crewed you up that this is how you see everyone else's.

I dont find any humor (Ok, a little) or joy in this. Infact, if they were not absolutely going at it, I wouldnt have cared.

Actually, I tend to stay away from JBR because to a person like me, it's not a part of the UAE. It's a western colony, which is good because that means all that filth and god knows what is kept away from me.

The fact that there is no mosque there tells me this place isnt for you, but its for John and Jane. Which is ok, I have an 18 bedroom house with 9 cars outside. I have a day career and 3 family businesses to help tend to, and work all in all from 8 to 10 ish... Including Saturday when Im at the Dubai branch of one of them.

So I just dont care that 2 half way drunk people might have kissed. But what I do care about is having rules in place, and having them at least follow them.

So Im sorry that your dad beat you or your country made you fight in Korea or God knows what else happened to make you so pessimistic, but what you said just doesnt hold water. Maybe for some, but not for most. And maybe this lady was one of those some.

Believe it or not, I have much much more on my mind and shoulders than to care about 2 people who wont even be here in 10 years.

Seabee said...

ultra[blue]

"I have much much more on my mind and shoulders than to care about 2 people who wont even be here in 10 years"

That's missing the point, which is not about the two people. It's about the law that bans the drinking of alcohol even though it's freely available and it's legal to buy it.

And the legal system that can find people guilty and give them a jail sentence because someone wrote a statement saying they committed an offence.

Those things I suggest you should care about.

BTW, please read the court's verdict. The couple were found guilty of indecent behaviour and sentenced to one month each in prison

Doug said...

Since most of the poor locals have had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in immigration - or anything else for that matter - little outbursts like this (and the traffic finger) allow them to occasionally pathetically flex some of their vestigial civic muscles. And despite the potential short-term damage to their business interests, evidently the ruling families tolerate this in order to keep the peasants pacified.

This is a fascinating viewpoint - again, this is from kaffir Western eyes so take this with a pinch of salt, but why isn't there some sort of movement actively campaigning for a change in how the UAE governs itself to empower its citizens?

Either this movement exists and I simply haven't heard of it (which is a likely possibility) or the alternative is that Emiratis are happy with the deal with the devil they've signed. The American classmate you describe as willing to give up his right nut for the bounty you enjoy…that bounty can only exist IF the status quo is maintained, a system where foreigners are brought in against the wishes of the citizens in order to plug a labour gap cheaply, allowing you to enjoy your free education, healthcare or whatever. Then now you’re in a catch-22: either you accept this state of affairs and happily enjoy the benefits while feeling rather unpacified…OR you find yourself with a larger say but suddenly you’re going to have to start paying for things. And you’re going to have to start fulfilling all those expat clich├ęd warnings about who’s going to collect your rubbish or work behind the hotel desk or whatever.

The system in its current state probably isn’t sustainable as either the local population is going to reach breaking point or the resident population will. There’s going to be a longer and longer tail from these sorts of cases as more and more people essentially decide the UAE isn’t a place to go anywhere. Unless of course, the UAE alters its overall business plan to target a new sector. On the one hand you’ve got us immoral Westerners with our boozing and extra-marital shagging, on the other you’ve got the Chinese with their gang violence and prostitution. Or of course, you could dispense with both and become self-reliant. Which will it be?

Anonymous said...

UltraBlue

You seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. You know as well as I do that the UAE cannot afford to give citizenhips out to the expat public as Indian rule will become a reality overnight! The fact that you are a citizen and look down upon the Residents indicates your level of intellect, arrogance and sheltered childhood. You citizens could not even build the country that you so love. So much for swearing allegiance and being ultra patriotic.

If you were so intelligent, wealthy and self reliant, why are you still begging people to come and build the Emirates and begging foreigners to bail you out now that you are officially bankrupt. In case you were unaware, your oil(Abu Dhabi because you - Dubai- ain't got any) is sold to the Foreigners and not the citizens. Your Sovereign Wealth Funds are stored with foreigners and not the citizens. Your Rulers personal wealth is stashed abroad and not in local banks. Your total existence, quality of life, standard of living and wealth if you call it that is due to foreigners and not the Citizens. The list can go on and on.

If we expats are the prostitutes for money which you so eloquently phrased, then what would you call the UAE for giving itself to the Foreigners (prostitutes) to rape time and time again. (willingly I may add because no one forced you to beg us to come)? You are giving it up for free. At least we getting paid for our booty!

Your country has legalised prostitution even though it states that it is illegal and you cannot see it. Every nightclub in the UAE is rife with prostitutes and you cannot find one nightclub where this activity doesn't take place. Some of you locals have tasbeeh in one hand, budweiser in the other hand and a prostitute in between your legs. This is exactly how you operate the law of the land. Blindly. Born a muslim, claim to be a muslim, but act like a non-muslim and then cry foul when you are told about your duty to Islam.

But because you feel that you are superior with your citizenship, wealth which is a lie similar to your 18 bedroom mansion and 9 cars which in reality is a mud hut and matchbox model cars, and your ration handouts which gives you discounts at the local Union Co-Op store, you feel as though you are Nimrod.

You are given handouts by the Ruing Elite in order to appease you as the Ruler is in a very difficult quagmire and has a very fine line to tow considering he is a minority in his very own country and must please everybody. In real terms it is you citizens that are inconsequential and the real whores because as long as the money is thrown at you, despite it being pennies to the pound and dime to a dollar, you are happy and content as long as it's money. You're not even fighting for your rights as prostitutes or increasing the price for your body because the soul has already been sold to the devil.

On the one hand you say you are in favour of the Saudi style rule and on the other hand you are not in favour of the Saudi style, thus not visiting. Whey does this not surprise us in the least? Because you are a by product of your country. Hypocritical. (Please don't take personally). This is your reality check.

For you to stay away from certain areas such as JBR is a testament to your double standards. I bet you do however visit The Dubai Mall, Mall of the Emirates or Wafi City where local dudes are walking hand in hand, with feminine hairstyles, make up, wearing sunglasses indoors and throwing little pieces of paper on the floor or coughing their cell numbers in order to attract the local ladies or local gents. So you see, you are no different to the infidel foreigners. You are doing exactly the same but utilising different tactics. Fornication is fornication, alcohol is alcohol, a cup of tea is a cup of tea and you are what you are. A school child dreaming of Alice in Wonderland barking at the tree hoping for the apple to fall, while the rest of us just go to the branch and pick it!

JaymeMaurice said...

Oh wow - from a Canadian (distant german menonite roots) I can't say I agree with the opinions of either side thats been going back and forth.

Remember that as an expact you are a guest in the country... if someone came into your home and started mollesting your children, you would have a problem with it. In this case the forigners aren't mollesting children but the culture which is equally important to the natives.

Re: the "who is a prostitute" argument... it's the stupidest thing I have heard. Believe it or not some expats come for the work and the experience of helping build a great Dubai. The emirates need help from the expats like a hot dog vendor needs customers. It's business, not prostitution. No transaction is forced. Negotiate your transaction accordingly knowing the laws of the state are the laws of the state.

Re: the he said she said worry... just remember that for a muslim, purgery is a crime punishable by eternal damnation.

I guess the only thing one can do is fall in line and be the best person you can be. If things do not go well, continue to be the best you can be and accept that life is not always fair. Learn from it and carry on.

Blaise - French said...

The story of kissing and drinking makes me laughing. I have a few Emiraty friend, and I wnet with them to club. You can not immagine how much they lye. Mosque are not big enough to absorb all bad things they are doing. I've seen them drinking magnum of 4 liters of Vodka, smoking any kind of stupefiant. The worst thing is that when they all go to the island with their jetski and boats for party, and they throw all bottles and paper on the beach and sea. So kissing at 2am is nothing compare to all dirty things Eniraty are doing during the day...
Also, local are allowed to have 70% dark windows, you know why, to hide when they have sex in their car with young girls. Law has to be for everybody the same. They try to grow-up the country 2 times faster than the rest of the world, but with middle age Law.